loving and believing and hoping
Ellie it has been over 5 years that we know each other. And in that time I think we have figured out your upbringing and your memories are very different than mine.
Where people are concerned; I believe the sum of the parts (of the person) is equal to the whole. Your reality is based on your parents, religion, friends, school, marriage, leaving the SDA, moving to Saskatoon, finding your daughter in Vancouver, even knowing Nancy and I. My reality is based on parents, church in a small town, my brother’s constant verbal abuse, lack of childhood friends, school, college, work, marriage, working with a group of Christians and knowing Stan and you.
And still we have so many similarities. Wow talk about sum of the parts!
You and I think alike, are very spiritual, have many of the same brain synapses, and share a daughter and son in marriage and love a grandchild.
If I love, truly love, and I mean truly love others like Scripture instructs or God demands, but do not believe in Jesus; do I miss out on heaven. Like a born salesperson you make your argument personal, your thoughts are emotional, you pick a baby to drive home your point: if I love others but do not believe in Jesus, where will I end up when I breathe my last.
I am challenged by your optimism of humanity. I truly think we are incapable of truly loving as God does. Not for lack of trying though.
I think Mother Teresa loved, Gandhi loved, I think Dietrich Bonhoffer loved.
Ellie, you are a Christian, are you not? Do we not have Scripture and believe in that Scripture for our faith? Do we not believe that God truly exists, believe that God speaks to us through His Word and through creation. I then assume you believe in knowledge of God and know the difference between general and specific knowledge.
We have general knowledge and specific knowledge. Each facet of knowledge answers different things. Using General Knowledge we know the world exists, that we are human, we have a spiritual need, we can argue and then kiss and make up, and the list goes on and on and on!
Every person (whether they believe in Jesus or God or not) know that a God exists. We see the creation and know the wonderful love the Creator gave to us and we know how the laws of the universe exist for man to have life and we even know that our lives have purpose.
God has given us specific knowledge. In the course of reading the Bible you see how God worked his love through people throughout biblical history. That is specific knowledge. We know about Jesus and salvation and heaven and eternity because of specific knowledge.
There are three responses to Christ as Saviour and Specific Knowledge and our personal history and memories help us to realize an answer.
• No! No way a Saviour and a God exists…Science is the answer!
• Yes, Period! I truly believe that Christ is my Saviour and my sins are forgiven, and that there is a heaven and hell
• Yes, but! I think that many people want to believe in a god and in an eternity, but do want to be tethered to the Gospel of Jesus
So spiritually speaking, I believe most are interested in the knowledge that helps to live lives with as much honesty and integrity as possible. In the midst of our freedom of belief, we seek the highest of moral standards, and of all people, Jesus can be one of the spiritual teachers who helps us figure out what those moral standards should be.
But still the question remains will Emerson go to Hell if he lives a life of absolute love and yet does not believe in Jesus
So Ellie, I need to ask some questions of you.
• What has influenced your thinking that this would be a question you grapple with.
• Is this about: loving, but not having to trust in Christ
• Let’s clarify love? is this the love God demands: that we love for others when they cannot love? OR do we love like many people today suggest: love that begins in my heart, but stays on my side of the line because I am not responsible for how you love.
• Do we love, are we tolerant of others; perhaps we are judgmental.
• People who understand God love differently than those who do not know God. Does scripture not say that you will know the Father because you know me…so will we not love like the Father because Jesus showed us how to love.
The teachings of Jesus have a depth and natural truth because of the belief he was and still is a mediator between man and God, because although his body was human, his spirit was divine. When we believe and trust in the “Way” we become part of the mystical body of Christ, all believers united, working together in a divine and incomprehensible way. This means that when Jesus' body was crucified it had a significance for all of those who follow him.
• So what is the significance of crucifixion and resurrection to you?
• Does the fact that we trust God for life ever come into play?
Where people are concerned; I believe the sum of the parts (of the person) is equal to the whole. Your reality is based on your parents, religion, friends, school, marriage, leaving the SDA, moving to Saskatoon, finding your daughter in Vancouver, even knowing Nancy and I. My reality is based on parents, church in a small town, my brother’s constant verbal abuse, lack of childhood friends, school, college, work, marriage, working with a group of Christians and knowing Stan and you.
And still we have so many similarities. Wow talk about sum of the parts!
You and I think alike, are very spiritual, have many of the same brain synapses, and share a daughter and son in marriage and love a grandchild.
If I love, truly love, and I mean truly love others like Scripture instructs or God demands, but do not believe in Jesus; do I miss out on heaven. Like a born salesperson you make your argument personal, your thoughts are emotional, you pick a baby to drive home your point: if I love others but do not believe in Jesus, where will I end up when I breathe my last.
I am challenged by your optimism of humanity. I truly think we are incapable of truly loving as God does. Not for lack of trying though.
I think Mother Teresa loved, Gandhi loved, I think Dietrich Bonhoffer loved.
Ellie, you are a Christian, are you not? Do we not have Scripture and believe in that Scripture for our faith? Do we not believe that God truly exists, believe that God speaks to us through His Word and through creation. I then assume you believe in knowledge of God and know the difference between general and specific knowledge.
We have general knowledge and specific knowledge. Each facet of knowledge answers different things. Using General Knowledge we know the world exists, that we are human, we have a spiritual need, we can argue and then kiss and make up, and the list goes on and on and on!
Every person (whether they believe in Jesus or God or not) know that a God exists. We see the creation and know the wonderful love the Creator gave to us and we know how the laws of the universe exist for man to have life and we even know that our lives have purpose.
God has given us specific knowledge. In the course of reading the Bible you see how God worked his love through people throughout biblical history. That is specific knowledge. We know about Jesus and salvation and heaven and eternity because of specific knowledge.
There are three responses to Christ as Saviour and Specific Knowledge and our personal history and memories help us to realize an answer.
• No! No way a Saviour and a God exists…Science is the answer!
• Yes, Period! I truly believe that Christ is my Saviour and my sins are forgiven, and that there is a heaven and hell
• Yes, but! I think that many people want to believe in a god and in an eternity, but do want to be tethered to the Gospel of Jesus
So spiritually speaking, I believe most are interested in the knowledge that helps to live lives with as much honesty and integrity as possible. In the midst of our freedom of belief, we seek the highest of moral standards, and of all people, Jesus can be one of the spiritual teachers who helps us figure out what those moral standards should be.
But still the question remains will Emerson go to Hell if he lives a life of absolute love and yet does not believe in Jesus
So Ellie, I need to ask some questions of you.
• What has influenced your thinking that this would be a question you grapple with.
• Is this about: loving, but not having to trust in Christ
• Let’s clarify love? is this the love God demands: that we love for others when they cannot love? OR do we love like many people today suggest: love that begins in my heart, but stays on my side of the line because I am not responsible for how you love.
• Do we love, are we tolerant of others; perhaps we are judgmental.
• People who understand God love differently than those who do not know God. Does scripture not say that you will know the Father because you know me…so will we not love like the Father because Jesus showed us how to love.
The teachings of Jesus have a depth and natural truth because of the belief he was and still is a mediator between man and God, because although his body was human, his spirit was divine. When we believe and trust in the “Way” we become part of the mystical body of Christ, all believers united, working together in a divine and incomprehensible way. This means that when Jesus' body was crucified it had a significance for all of those who follow him.
• So what is the significance of crucifixion and resurrection to you?
• Does the fact that we trust God for life ever come into play?
posted by qtip at 5:34 p.m.
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